Mod Archive Forums
Music Production => MilkyTracker => Tracking => MilkyTracker Community => Topic started by: DasKreestof on November 17, 2008, 20:05:27
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I thought it was a shame that the Wikipedia article on MilkyTracker had been deleted. It's referenced on many other tracker pages and the truth is, it deserves it's own because it's a unique tracker. It's hard to think of such a complex software that's been ported to so many platforms, and it's the only real tracker for the PocketPC platform.
I've created a basic page for it again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MilkyTracker
Please help me flesh it out more with it's history, facts and citations. This really is special software and it deserves it's place on Wikipedia.
Thanks!
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;D i can't agree with you more,
i fixed some of the links to make then look better instead of have example "Mac_OS_X" now has "Mac OS X" as the link :angel:
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Thanks!
I couldn't figure out how to fix that. I looked up some code on wikipedia but it didn't work.
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http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/MilkyTracker <- this is a very nice entry who ever did this :D
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I wrote that in Wikipedia and it got deleted because there are no sources.
It looks like the way the article is shaping now is the way to do it. Although I've also written the About page on MilkyTracker.net, it's okay if an outsider refers to it. :rolleyes: Hopefully that also makes MilkyTracker important enough for inclusion in the Wikipedia. (The MilkyTracker article has also been previously deleted on the grounds of not being notable enough.)
May I just advise dropping any sort of touting (like "Wide platform support", "Perhaps no other music composition software..."). Also, I don't think the Mod Tracking paragraph belongs to the article.
Jam channels aren't related to MIDI, it's just something that's added to the tracker's note polyphony, which is otherwise limited to the amount of channel's the module has. Also, Envelope Generator hasn't been a part of the MilkyTracker terminology. There's no generating involved, just plain manual editing. So "envelope editor" or "the instrument editor's (volume and panning) envelopes" would probably be more appropriate.
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*faceplam* i think a re-write of the wiki page is needed ;D
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Obviously all should feel free to edit the page to improve it. I threw it up quickly so that there would be something there instead of dead links on other wikipedia pages. It immediately got marked for deletion as non-notable software so I started fancying it up as fast as I could.
The reason I touted it is because I wanted to distinguish it as notable software. Although I've worded it poorly, the truth is I doubt any piece of music composition software has been ported to so many platforms. Can anyone name anything audio related that has been on pocketpc, mac osx, linux and windows? That's significant and noteable.
I also think it's the only tracking option for pocketpc, which is how I became a Milkytracker user. In fact, it's the reason I ditched palmOS for pocketPC.
I added the mod tracking paragraph to make the article less esoteric. Perhaps someone here would like to rewrite it.
I didn't add the jam channel section so I can't comment on that.
I used the term Envelope Generator because many of my hardware synths refer to their envelopes as EGs. I'll change it to envelope editor. Regardless, most synths have at best 6-8 stage envelopes with undefineable loop points. I don't remember that becoming common until the Native Instruments soft synths started including them after Absynth. (even Reaktor doesn't have them.)
Wikipedia is community driven, and by no means am I on expert on Milkytracker. I announced the article here in hopes that it people who had more knowledge would edit the article and improve it. I hope that all will do so. I will keep saving the revisions so that in 3 days when it get's deleted, I'll create it again from the last revision and hopefully it will be full featured enough that it won't get auto-marked for deletion for not being notable. I'm not being biased here when I say that this is a very notable piece of software.
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hi DasKreestof and welcome :) its always good have a milky lover around us..
The wiki entry is nice... if nobody delete it. Maybe the entry could be updated with some info from original Raina´s post
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/MilkyTracker
or ask us here or in #milkytracker for more info
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I added some more information from the NationMaster post this morning. I didn't realize that Raina had written that as well. The article is largely plagiarized from his work.
I don't know if adding further development history would be too esoteric or not for the wikipedia page.
I did make note not to copy the part about Milkytracker being closed source, since that's no longer the case.
I've been thinking that maybe I should include a list of formats it does import. As well as increasing the number of links to other related softwares.
Also I noticed that Peter Barth is not credited anywhere outside this nationmaster article and the source code. I didn't know if I should mention him in the article of if he wanted to keep his name private.
Thank you for welcoming me. :)
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about the nationmaster page: teh picture isn't workink!
Firefox does not seem to understand the picture. Also clicking on the picture does not work in either firefox or internet explorer.
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I didn't get it at first, clicked where the picture goes, got a 404, went back, and it showed, Firefox 3.0.4. I didn't know the Wikipedia page died.
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The reference pages I used on the page were removed. I had used references from "NatonMaster Encyclopedia" but they were removed citing that it was a copy of wikipedia.
Does anyone know any good sites that I could use to add external references to the article? The more external references the article has, the less likely it is to get deleted.
A simple google search didn't lead me to much, so I'm asking you the community for links.
Feel free to post them here or edit the wikipedia page yourself :)
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Like a fool, I did some edits. :P
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Great! Thanks!
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I'm concerned that this article was recreated without giving sufficient attention to the recommendation of the deletion review on this topic or the prior Articles for deletion nomination. In particular, none of the sources are reliable secondary sources; they are all primary sources. There's no new evidence of notability here. I plan to renominate for deletion if these concerns are not addressed (CSD G4 does not cover a substantially different article). Dcoetzee 08:47, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
>:( seems they want to delete it again....
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oh for fucks sake, ok, how about a reference from TMA, would that help? I mean, it might be nice to have an article about MilkyTracker actually posted on the Mod Archive pages. If anyone is up to the task of writing that, you can then use that as a secondary reference...
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I've edited the page again. Hopefully it will stave off commercial interests in having the page killed again.
Having more reference pages would certainly help stave off the critics. Who's in charge of posting pages on the Mod Archive pages? What's the process?
BTW: I'm nearly finished with the Operations Manual skeleton, and it's partly fleshed out as well.
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That would be me.
It would be nice to have a Trackers information/article section, so if you want to submit an article about Milkytracker for such, that's fine with me. Plain text, or you could use the basic markup as follows so that I don't have to do too much of the work although I imagine it will still be some...
Lists:
:UL: - Begin List
:LI: - List Item
:UL: - End List
Formatting:
__TEXT__ = Bold TEXT.
''TEXT'' = Italic TEXT.
^^TEXT^^ = Small TEXT
Linking:
[TITLE|http://URL] - External Link
[TITLE|tma:xxxx.php] - Internal page link. e.g. member.php.
[TITLE | common-help] - Internal link to another article or document.
This is how it's looking: http://modarchive.org/index.php?article-trackers
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The Milkytracker article is nominated for deletion again
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/MilkyTracker_(2nd_nomination)#MilkyTracker
Their are currently four votes to delete the article, vs my one to keep it.
The main reason people want are voting to delete the article are a lack of outside sources showing that it's notable.
If you love this software like I do, please vote to have the article kept, and if you can find sources, please add them. :)
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I'm still waiting for someone to write up the article on Mod Archive about Milkytracker. All it is right now is a list of features... You did ask before, DasKreestof :)
http://modarchive.org/index.php?article-trackers (note the link to this page on Wikipedia is no longer correct)
Also, I found this:
http://www.smartphonemag.com/cms/blogs/3/1614
I'd say that's a pretty good Milkytracker article
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I don't think an article on modarchive would help much - they could argue that modarchive is a primary source being the forums are hosted here.
[ Edit: "Primary sources or sources affiliated with the subject are generally not sufficient for a Wikipedia article" ]
Milkytracker has been mentioned in some hard-copy music magazines and PC magazines also as DasKreestof has mentioned on that discussion page, however I can't remember the magazine names and have no idea if there is an online copy that can be referenced.
Wikipedia has a blind spot for anything that could be considered 'underground' such as the tracker scene, IRC, anything that doesn't obtain main-stream media attention (for example, look up the page on Idle-RPG, a 'game' that appears on virtually every IRC network but which Wikipedia refuse acknowledge existence of!). Really, it annoys me - we have a well-written and useful page for Milkytracker, but all that can be gone on the whim of a few arrogant Wikipedia editors.
/rant
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I don't even know how to add a vote to that page.
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Click on the "edit this page" tab at the top.
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Then what? Lots of scary looking markup text? Meh.
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Deleted. There were 4 votes to delete and only 2 (DasKreestof and myself) voted to keep it.
Btw, it has been deleted because it is deemed not notable, there are a lack of secondary reliable sources (sources not affiliated with MilkyTracker). I could only find two secondary sources, and I don't think they were classed as 'reliable' sources according to Wikipedia's guidelines.
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I find it very suspicious that MilkyTracker was mentioned on the FT2 page several times, but in comparison to other trackers, it was not wikified (i.e. no link to the actual, now deleted MT wiki page). I corrected that. Maybe that will be helpful when the article will be rewritten at some point.
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this is why wikipedia is a piece of crap. "not notable" is AN OPINION. an encyclopedia is to be a collection of facts and information, not opinions. there is so much stuff on wikipedia that is "not notable" or is "fringe" and "QUESTIONABLE" and only there because of lemming-like attention (which != notability).
the wikimedia tool is user-unfriendly non-WYSIWYG overwrought hackerish crap. the wikipedia community is a bunch of arrogant ****s, and the rules are both restricting, ignored depending on the topic, and handled totally arbitrarily. if there's attention on something, it gets messed with. if there's no one paying attention to something, it stays there and/or stays inferior.
"not notable."
what a bunch of BS. i could nominate a good 15% of wikipedia's content as "not notable." half the articles i go to are slanted toward a politically correct viewpoint but remain as is (aspartame, anyone?). the other half of the articles are filled with marks about needing references yet the entries remain. unchanged.
i'm fuming. every month i find more reasons to HATE wikipedia. as a person who's done tons of research on certain topics, i have found really poor facts and lack of references to direct statements in many articles... yet, no one pays them note because the "community" isn't interested in those topics.
the end result is that it's not "community" driven; it's a popularity contest and a little world of "me can has that factoid too! (copy copy copy from other sources....)."
i've contributed. i've had things deleted. i've attempted to discuss and been ignored. i've made moderately small changes to things i have expertise on... still... i am NOT part of that so-called "community" and the way the elitist pigs there behave, i'll never want to be.
you know what's NOTABLE? how CRAPPY the attitudes of wikipedia editors are. can we make an article about how wikipedia is a great example of anti-social personality disorders demonstrated by groups of humans acting as an entity?
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Nice rant :)
I completely agree with you on most of the points you have made, and was going to add a rant of my own until I noticed I have already done so ;)
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@ Deltafire: hah! glad you appreciated my rant. sometimes i just have to blow off steam. when i saw the BS about wiki and the attempts over a few years to get an article about Milky Tracker on there... i just blew up. it's not like Milky is my girlfriend who just got insulted by a random jerk on the street ... yet i take it personally because of experience with wiki. it's not what it claims to be. any place where that kind of thing happens (reality != to claim), i just kinda blow up, especially at people or organizations that make claims of "high ideals" like wikipedia does. peh.
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I thought the MilkyTracker article was excellent. I was really proud of the work that I and the cloud of contributers put together. I felt like someone vandalized and destroyed a treasured object when that gang of ignorant thugs deleted it.
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the wikimedia tool is user-unfriendly non-WYSIWYG overwrought hackerish crap.
As this is quite off-topic, I will also give an off-topic answer: I like MediaWiki. Exactly for that reason. Because I hate WYSIWYG-Editors. The formatting might seem a bit weird at first, but once you've got the hang of it, it's pretty fast. Of course this is totally user-unfriendly if you consider all those noobs that can only create text using shiny buttons, but then again, you should know this from somewhere else... you are a tracker guy, aren't you? *hint, hint*
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you have a valid point: yeah, you're right i'm a tracker guy.
but honestly, i've grown tired of geeking *everything.*
i'll deal with the important things (music tools) as needed (or not use them) and they ARE built around a legacy concept to begin with, which i grew WITH (not forced to learn suddenly upon its appearance in, say 2005 or whatever - i've been with trackers since Norman Lin's MOD Edit 2.0 DOS tracker... what a horror that was! hah hah).
MediaWiki isn't one of those "i grew with it" tools. it's new. it's not HTML. it's not straight forward. it is its own new and arbitrary concept (i'm not a unix guy, so if there's any legacy support of formatting commands from the evil vi or whatever, i'm unaware and still disinterested).
as for "noobs..." i have long ago abandoned the elitism of "user" vs "tech" because it's ridiculous to maintain that attitude when computers have been marketed at general population (not techs and geeks) for decades now. i stopped a career as a tech support person because i was sick of the elite attitude of my co-workers. they were terribly insulting to any non-computer-expert and it was not right. their very purpose was to HELP these people, not insult them the second they're out of earshot. the clients asking for help weren't idiots. many had PhDs and Masters degrees in all kinds of things. it wasn't appropriate to be experts in *everything* including fringe technical concepts (most of which came out of legacy and defective software behavior that we had to help them work around)... and they were introduced to computers as being user-friendly tools to get work done easier (which still is largely not the reality - i grew up loving computers but i despise them now; it's a specialty of mine & i have a huge investment in using them as my "preferred tools" but i DO hate the lack of completeness in the industry - it's infantile compared to most other industries but pretends to be so wonderful).
i wont keep this topic going bc ur right it's way off topic. i just wanted to share my opinions/frustrations with the original topic.
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I thought the MilkyTracker article was excellent. I was really proud of the work that I and the cloud of contributers put together. I felt like someone vandalized and destroyed a treasured object when that gang of ignorant thugs deleted it.
you are RIGHT and justified to feel that way. that's why i ranted. i know the feeling too well. you put out a very serious piece of effort to contribute to both the Tracker AND WikiPedia communities and it was treated like ... well, like they're elite bastards and "your work counts for nothing." their behavior is just not right at all.
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apparently science fiction vaporware archticture in short articles without much meaning or content is more "notable" than a real music tool that actually exists... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimizu_Mega-City_Pyramid
i'm all for these kind of dreams but this whole topic is a perfect example of why i fundamentally hate wikipedia... tho u won't find me supporting encyclopedia dramatica either (the "revenge" wiki created by ppl who hated the arrogance of wikipedia editors).
i'll b curious to see how long the Chinese entry lasts...
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I thought the MilkyTracker article was excellent. I was really proud of the work that I and the cloud of contributers put together. I felt like someone vandalized and destroyed a treasured object when that gang of ignorant thugs deleted it.
Do you have a backup copy of it? (I presume you wrote it then copied it over to Wikipedia?)
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I do, I've been meaning to convert it to the format used here so I could upload it.
I'll copy and paste it below.
{{Infobox Software
| name = MilkyTracker
| logo = [[Image:128xreflection.png|50px]]
| screenshot = [[Image:MilkytrackerScreenshot.jpg|240px|MilkyTracker screenshot]]
| caption = MilkyTracker screenshot
| author =
| developer =
| released =
| latest release version = v0.90.85
| latest release date = January 1, 2010
| latest preview version =
| latest preview date =
| programming language =
| operating system = [[Microsoft Windows]], [[Mac OS X]], [[Linux]], [[FreeBSD]], [[OpenBSD]], [[AmigaOS 4]] and [[PocketPC]]
| platform =
| language =
| status =
| genre = [[Tracker (music software)|Tracker]]
| license = [[GNU General Public License]]
| website = http://milkytracker.org/
}}
MilkyTracker is a [[free software]]<ref name="Create Digital Music - MilkyTracker">[http://createdigitalmusic.com/tag/milkytracker/ Create Digital Music - MilkyTracker]</ref>
<ref name="The Palm Sounds">[http://the-palm-sound.blogspot.com/2008/04/milkytracker-update.html Palm Sounds]</ref> <ref name="MilkyTracker Pan-Platform Tracker Now Open Source, with New Features">[http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7284.html MilkyTracker Pan-Platform Tracker Now Open Source, with New Features]</ref> multi-platform [[Tracker (music software)|tracker]] for composing music in the [[MOD (file format)|MOD]] and [[XM (mod format)|XM]] module file formats. <ref name="Downloads / Multimedia? Multimedia! Multimedia!">[http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpunto-informatico.it%2F2244803_3%2FDownload%2FNews%2Fdownload-multimedia-multimedia.aspx&sl=auto&tl=en Downloads-Multimedia? Multimedia!]</ref>
It attempts to recreate the [[Module file|module]] replay and user experience of the popular DOS program [[FastTracker 2|FastTracker]],<ref name="Thumbuki - MilkyTracker">[http://www.thumbuki.com/20080226/milky-tracker.html Thumbuki - MilkyTracker]</ref> <ref name="Netlabels - the secret Revolution">[http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gulli.com%2Fnews%2Fnetlabels-die-geheime-2006-07-07&sl=auto&tl=en Netlabels - the secret Revolution]</ref> <ref name="Mobile Music Creation using PDAs and Smartphones">[http://www.mobilemusicworkshop.org/docs/Elsdon_mmw07.pdf Mobile Music Creation using PDAs and Smartphones]</ref>
<ref name="TDT4290 at IDI/NTNU Group 2 - Norwegian University of Science and Technology">[http://www.idi.ntnu.no/emner/tdt4290/Rapporter/gruppe2-2007.pdf TDT4290 at IDI/NTNU Group 2 - Norwegian University of Science and Technology]</ref> with special playback modes available for improved Amiga [[ProTracker]] 2/3 compatibility.<ref name="About MilkyTracker">[http://milkytracker.org/?about About MilkyTracker]</ref><ref name=" Tracker Software Overview">[http://modarchive.org/index.php?article-trackers Tracker Software Overview]</ref>
The MilkyTracker [[Module file|mod]] [[Tracker (music software)|tracker]] is notable for being supported on a wide range of platforms and is the only tracker available for the [[Windows Mobile]] platform. <ref name="Playing (and editing!) tracked (module) music on your Pocket PC">[http://www.smartphonemag.com/cms/blogs/3/1614 Playing (and editing!) tracked (module) music on your Pocket PC]</ref><ref name="MilkyTracker Pan-Platform Tracker Now Open Source, with New Features">[http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7284.html MilkyTracker Pan-Platform Tracker Now Open Source, with New Features]</ref>
==MOD tracking==
[[Module file|MOD]] composition or "tracking" is done through the control of multichannel sample playback. An instrument is created by arranging one or more audio samples across a keyboard range. The instrument is then sequenced on a monophonic track that contains note, volume and effect data. A pattern is a series of tracks that are played back simultaneously. A song is then created by arranging the patterns.
==MilkyTracker features==
It is able to open 30+ legacy mod formats and is able to save in .[[XM (mod format)|xm]] and .[[MOD (file format)|mod]] formats.<ref name="About MilkyTracker">[http://milkytracker.org/?about MilkyTracker Features]</ref>
Like FastTracker, MilkyTracker contains a sample editor and an instrument editor. The envelope editor of the instrument editor rivals the envelope flexibility of many hardware and software synthesizers because it allows the creation of many envelope points and user definable envelope loop points.
MilkyTracker also supports basic (velocity sensitive) note input via [[MIDI]].<ref name="Frequently Asked Questions about MilkyTracker">[http://www.milkytracker.org/docs/FAQ.html Frequently Asked Questions about MilkyTracker]</ref>
==Platform support==
The range of diverse operating systems and hardware platforms supported by MilkyTracker is unique in the realm of music software applications:
[[Microsoft Windows]]: MilkyTracker will run on Windows 9x & Me, NT, Windows 200x, XP, Vista & Windows 7.<ref name="Create Digital Music - MilkyTracker">[http://createdigitalmusic.com/tag/milkytracker/ Create Digital Music - MilkyTracker]</ref>
[[Unix-like]]: MilkyTracker is available on [[Ubuntu (operating system)|Ubuntu]], [[Arch Linux]], [[Debian]], [[Maemo]], Enlisy, [[FreeBSD]], [[OpenBSD]], [[NetBSD]], [[Gentoo Linux|Gentoo]], [[SUSE]] and [[Mac OS X]].<ref name="Create Digital Music - MilkyTracker">[http://createdigitalmusic.com/tag/milkytracker/ Create Digital Music - MilkyTracker]</ref> (Mac G3 compatible)<ref name="GNUstep Live CD 2.0 Released">[http://www.osnews.com/story/22606/GNUstep_Live_CD_2_0_Released GNUstep Live CD 2.0 Released]
</ref> <ref name="Milkytracker, return trackers">[http://www.macmusic.org/news/view.php/lang/fr/id/3917/ Milkytracker, return trackers]</ref>
[[Amiga]]: A port has been made of MilkyTracker for [[AmigaOS 4]].<ref name="Create Digital Music - MilkyTracker">[http://createdigitalmusic.com/tag/milkytracker/ Create Digital Music - MilkyTracker]</ref><ref name="YouTube - MilkyTracker on an Amiga 4000">[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN0oJFIpbys YouTube - MilkyTracker on an Amiga 4000]</ref>
[[Windows Mobile]]: MilkyTracker can be run on [[Windows Mobile]] smartphones, PDAs, [[Pocket PC]] and a VDO Dayton Car Navigation system running Windows CE 4.2.
<ref name="Platform Coverage">[http://milkytracker.org/?screenshots MilkyTracker platform coverage]</ref>
MilkyTracker can also run on the [[XBOX]] and [[GP2x]]<ref name="GP2x wiki - MilkyTracker">[http://wiki.gp2x.org/wiki/MilkyTracker GP2x wiki - MilkyTracker]</ref>.
==MilkyTracker development history==
MilkyTracker is not based on any existing module replay engine. Its core MilkyPlay has been in development since the mid-90s, originally as a Digitrakker .MDL player. MilkyTracker development started a decade later for the [[Pocket PC]] and it still fully operates on rather humble PDAs. MilkyTracker is and will stay a 2nd generation [[Tracker (music software)|tracker]]. There are no plans to add modern tracker features that would break compatibility with FastTracker.<ref name="About MilkyTracker">[http://milkytracker.org/?about About MilkyTracker]</ref>
== See also ==
* [[List of audio trackers]]
* [[:Category:Tracker musicians]]
* [[Computer game music]]
* [[Module file]]
* [[Modular software music studio]]
* [[Multitrack recording]]
*[http://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_profile&query=82904/ Asian MOD music] - Containing Asian (Taiwan, Japan, Korea) XM files.
==References==
{{reflist}}
{{AmigaOS 4}}
[[Category:Audio trackers]]
[[Category:AmigaOS 4 software]]
[[Category:Pocket PC software]]
[[sv:MilkyTracker]]