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Website => Ripper / Plagiarism Reports => Topic started by: timelord on May 31, 2013, 23:40:34

Title: Composer identity fraud
Post by: timelord on May 31, 2013, 23:40:34
I think I need a little help from the community.  There is another person named Jared Cravens over at AMP trying to take credit for the 23 mods and s3ms that I have composed between 1993 and 1996.  What he probably doesn't realize is that my real name was included in the official release of Impulse which is still preserved at the Hornet FTP archive mirrors, here:

ftp://ftp.scene.org/mirrors/hornet/music/songs/1996/t/tl-impul.zip (ftp://ftp.scene.org/mirrors/hornet/music/songs/1996/t/tl-impul.zip)

Within that zip archive, the sample data in IMPULSE.S3M says to refer to IMPULSE.TXT.  At the bottom of that file, it says:

(c) 1996 Robert Gergely
not to be modified or used in any fashion without express written
permission.

That's me. The admin over at AMP is trying to stay neutral on this matter, so I would like to open a discussion here in order to resolve this permanently.

Besides this, I have other evidence, if the discussion can be opened.  I am only interested in the correct information being preserved for history.

Thanks,
Rob


Edit by moderator: Fixed FTP link (forum bug)
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: Saga Musix on June 01, 2013, 13:24:16
Wait, are we seriously talking about something claiming credit for your modules (aren't we past these times by now?), or just something having the same handle by accident?
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: Axxy on June 01, 2013, 16:30:43
I'm trying to find why I asked the original question in the first place. I must have come across a mod with Timelord (Jared Craven)  and must have asked if the 2 Timelords were the same person or someone else, maybe because no one had your real name or something, I dunno?

Having had a look around at various sites, most have Timelord modules but not really the real name for the alias. AMP didn't, Nectarine doesn't and Modland has no entry in the spreadsheet for Timelord (unless thats been updated or something)...  I see your profile has been updated here at MA...

Also, looking around at whats left of the oldskool sites and looking at old zipfiles, plus the Internet in general, all the Timelord modules are yours, some of those files have been online for 20 years....

Again, I can't find the module that I found that might have been credited to another Timelord (you haven't re-generated have you?)  ;) which I asked the original question for.

Can you confirm that the 23 modules over at AMP are correctly credited to you?  I think the same as here, but MA only has 21 of them.

And, did you compose any more modules apart from those available here or at AMP?
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: timelord on June 01, 2013, 19:41:11
My music was used in a commercial video game called Uplink by Introversion software.  This game wasn't really very successful until its release on the Steam Platform in mid 2006.

I was browsing the uplink forums when I came across something kind of shocking, a user name timelord was thanking people for enjoying his music and re-directing people to the AMP site, which contained my tracks and a fake interview filled out by a Jared Cravens who was trying to claim credit for my work.

Here is the forum post:  http://forums.introversion.co.uk/uplink/viewtopic.php?t=34729&highlight=
(it's near the bottom)

Upon discovering this I have contacted Crown at AMP and asked him to take down the false information.  There was a lot of back and forth and vehement opposition from Jared, including "evidence" in the form of "vouchers" from people in the scene.

The truth is, I never met people from the scene, while maybe he did.  It's entirely possible that he went by the same handle of Timelord.  That is fine, it's not an original name at all, but what is utterly despicable is claiming credit for the music I made in my teenage years.

Eventually, Crown took down the interview and reset the profile to list "blank" information, but it took a lot of pleading to get that done.  It was very difficult for me to "prove" my real name due to the fact that most of the songs were released only as Timelord.  This Jared Cravens person obviously made note of this and is trying to opportunistically take advantage of it.

Last month, I decided that after about seven years later I would submit an interview form to AMP with my legitimate information contained in it, just to have the record correct for history.  A different admin (Asle) is on duty now and accepted the information.  Amazingly enough, the impersonator found out about this and protested for its removal, and for about a week the fake Jared Cravens information was again displayed.  I contacted Asle again to try and explain the situation, they took down the form again and it's his official position that they do not want to get involved to arbitrate this and want to stay neutral.

I can understand that, however AMP and this site are probably the only remaining authorities for demoscene music and I strongly feel that there should be some sort of arbitration process, which is why I am reaching out to the community for help.

Now, the best piece of evidence that proves my identity is contained within the 1996 hornet zip file that I brought up earlier:  ftp://ftp.scene.org/mirrors/hornet/music/songs/1996/t/tl-impul.zip

I forgot about this the first time around in 2006, but it's still there.  I also have kept my working tracker directory for all of these years.  I have backup versions of two of my official releases which are less-developed and work-in-progress versions.  If someone is willing to listen, I can demonstrate exactly how they are different, one of which has a complex piano melody that was scrapped and "scaled down" - a portion of this melody still remains in the final release.

I also did a lot of CD and tape sampling of commercial music in those days.  I can point out exactly what was sampled and from where, this is verifiable through youtube links.  I'm not talking about vocal samples, but things like pads, snare drums, beat loops and effects.  This kind of obscure knowledge is something that only the composer would know.

In addition to that, there is an active capture from 1998 of the last official timelord music collection website preserved on the internet way back machine:  

http://web.archive.org/web/19981202074419/http://evillive.insync.net/%7Etl/

The bottom of that contains my email address, which still works and comes to me.

As you said however, it's been 20 years, but having this correct for history and for the con artist to finally go away is very important to me.

I need to convince the AMP people to change their minds and accept my information.  I don't know what Jared has told them but I have a feeling that he has been very persuasive and that they are siding with him at this point, it's going to be an uphill battle.

At present, I have shown Asle the link to the file in the hornet archive, but he is ignoring it.

Thanks for listening, and thanks for your support.

Rob
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: timelord on June 01, 2013, 19:44:03
Can you confirm that the 23 modules over at AMP are correctly credited to you?  I think the same as here, but MA only has 21 of them.

And, did you compose any more modules apart from those available here or at AMP?


To answer your questions Axxy, yes the 23 at AMP are official and correct.  They were missing one which I recently submitted.  I haven't yet filled in the blanks here but will do so shortly.
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: Saga Musix on June 01, 2013, 21:15:27
Sorry to hear about all that and thanks for bringing it all up. I've noticed this lack of information about your person in the past when searching for your handle because I like some of your tunes (especially Impulse and Ultrasound) quite a lot.
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: timelord on June 01, 2013, 21:59:37
Sorry to hear about all that and thanks for bringing it all up. I've noticed this lack of information about your person in the past when searching for your handle because I like some of your tunes (especially Impulse and Ultrasound) quite a lot.

Thanks.  If you're interested in hearing some newer material, I have a number of tracks online that are reminiscent of my old style here:

soundcloud.com/copious
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: Saga Musix on June 01, 2013, 22:18:53
I've mailed you at your tl@v... address - please respond to that mail and quote the original content.
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: timelord on June 01, 2013, 22:39:22
I've mailed you at your tl@v... address - please respond to that mail and quote the original content.

> Hello,
> please verify that this email still exists (as indicated in http://forums.modarchive.org/index.php?topic=3421.msg12790;boardseen)

> - Saga / ModArchive

replied.
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: Axxy on June 02, 2013, 13:12:51
@Saga

I was wondering if anyone over at Nectarine could shed some light on it?  I don't know how active some of the sceners are over there....
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: Saga Musix on June 02, 2013, 13:17:54
Dunno how that would be of much help in this case, because this case seems to be little researched. I am currently collecting evidence from both sides and asking people from various other sites to help, though. I might have some results on who the real "Timelord" is in a few days, hopefully.
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: Saga Musix on July 12, 2013, 23:06:03
After some time of investigation, I want to let everyone know that I'm rather convinced that everything is like Robert Gergely claims. I have done a lot of research, and you can read up on it if you want to see why I am convinced that he's telling the truth: http://sagamusix.de/other/timelord/
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: Axxy on July 13, 2013, 01:06:14
Nice researching Saga. ;D

If I was to hazard an opinion, I would have credited Robert with being the real Timelord.  For me, the credit in the files from hornet archive, which have been there for nearly 20 years where he was mentioned kinda proves that.  Looking at all the evidence you have gathered, I agree with your conclusions...

Hopefully, we can now draw a line under it.
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: Saga Musix on July 13, 2013, 12:18:02
For me, the credit in the files from hornet archive, which have been there for nearly 20 years where he was mentioned kinda proves that.
Well, it doesn't really if you consider the whole story - Jared claiming that Robert has been impersonating him for over 20 years - if it was true, Robert could just have uploaded the modified zip package to Hornet back then. But yes, it's all quite absurd and I think Jared was hoping that none of his claims could still be verified - including lies like Robert working as a sysop at Blackbox or Basehead being his (Jared's) friend.
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: Axxy on July 13, 2013, 15:45:11
I just wanted to add a couple more things to this thread and then I'm done.

Quote
Amiga Music Preservation one of the many places I uploaded my MODs to many years ago

Now, this might be hard to verify but, looking at the Timelord modules on Modland, these might very well have been contributed by me, back in 2000 and something when I sent in 4 dvds full of mods. Renamed filenames is a bit of a giveaway, but a possibility.

That might also apply to AMP too.  I contributed about 18,000+ modules back in the day as well.  It is hard to say whether they were in with that lot I sent in, so that also could contradict the above quote as well.


On another matter. Modland has a further 2 s3m' in the Timelord folder, called "Luigi" and "Gryphon".  Maybe we could get confirmation of these 2 modules as they both appear under the "Mike" artist here on ModArchive.

Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: Saga Musix on July 13, 2013, 17:23:00
Well, at least they're not Rob's... just like that one XM there.
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: timelord on July 19, 2013, 05:51:37
I'd like to thank Saga for taking the time to do this, and it's a great shame that it was necessary.  But on to better things...

To anyone interested, I took some time out of my other musical productions to compose a new track in the .it format once again, the first in a very long time.  Was a very welcome diversion and I'm pleased with the outcome.  Available now:

http://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&query=174156
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: timelord on July 19, 2013, 05:57:43
I just wanted to add a couple more things to this thread and then I'm done.

Now, this might be hard to verify but, looking at the Timelord modules on Modland, these might very well have been contributed by me, back in 2000 and something when I sent in 4 dvds full of mods. Renamed filenames is a bit of a giveaway, but a possibility.

That might also apply to AMP too.  I contributed about 18,000+ modules back in the day as well.  It is hard to say whether they were in with that lot I sent in, so that also could contradict the above quote as well.


On another matter. Modland has a further 2 s3m' in the Timelord folder, called "Luigi" and "Gryphon".  Maybe we could get confirmation of these 2 modules as they both appear under the "Mike" artist here on ModArchive.



I think in the case of these two, they contained sample text with the word timelord and were accidentally put in my directory..  I recognize a sample in Luigi.

That song by the way is one of my favorites now, builds up nicely, lots of feeling in it.  No idea who made it.
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: Axxy on July 19, 2013, 12:24:20
Quote
That song by the way is one of my favorites now, builds up nicely, lots of feeling in it.  No idea who made it.

They are both under the Artist "Mike" here at Modarchive.

And btw, very nice piece of music for Spheroid. I'm surprised after 16 years you would remember how to use Impulse Tracker or get it to work on modern day machines or did you use a different tracker?

A very nice addition to your other modules and feel free to compose some more...  ;)
Title: Re: Composer identity fraud
Post by: timelord on July 19, 2013, 12:38:52
They are both under the Artist "Mike" here at Modarchive.

And btw, very nice piece of music for Spheroid. I'm surprised after 16 years you would remember how to use Impulse Tracker or get it to work on modern day machines or did you use a different tracker?

A very nice addition to your other modules and feel free to compose some more...  ;)

Thanks.. I actually used Schism which is a modern clone of Impulse Tracker.  All the keys and layouts are the same, apart from forgetting all of the effects the entire process was like riding a bike.

Although I am more dedicated to professional audio now, this is definitely something I can come back to every now and again for future releases.