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[zzo38]

None of that is practically supported by any tool out there, though. Besides, I'm not sure if this sample re-use thing can be guaranteed to work with each and every tracker/player - I do remember that DUMB has (had?) this concept of only ever reading files sequentially and never jumping backwards, which could pose a problem with such samples of course. I have no idea if this limitation still holds, though.

There is an advantage to that, but files with pointers are difficult to read/write in such a way.

It does have a TOC which can be viewed by any proper PDF viewer (usually in a treeview next to the page display). But that doesn't really matter since the latest versions use a CHM file for the manual instead of a PDF.

O, OK I didn't know that. (I got an error when I tried to upgrade it.) However, the tree view isn't for printout.

"Even"?! Are you aware that no tracker out there has this feature, and that you are pretty much the only person that ever came up with it?
But please, go ahead, take any tracker, add an SQL interface to it and demonstrate how much easier it is to edit modules by writing SQL statements rather than by typing in notes and using a GUI.

I meant one that does both, and MML too, so three things.

And I do think what program and formats you use as a user can matter for development too if you are writing programs to deal with the music or to input/output it. Some of it has only to do with the format and not the program. Some things may be specific to the program, although editing the file directly can mean that some effects have to be coded manually, if you are using them at all. There are some shortcuts you can use for chords and so on, but that makes it difficult to manually do envelopes and tuning and so on if the format doesn't have such things, even though it is possible to make such a music in such a format anyways.

[Saga Musix]

There is an advantage to that, but files with pointers are difficult to read/write in such a way.

It only really makes sense for streamed formats (such as MP3), but for modules, which were never meant to be streamed, and which technically cannot be streamed because you always need to have the whole file, it really doesn't make much sense to have this as a "feature" of the format.

However, the tree view isn't for printout.

True, but then again, who prints out a 150-page thick manual these days? Think of the trees!
The manual is not even written in a way that is easily readable on paper (e.g. no cross references to other pages to allow easy navigation).

[null_terminated]

I prefer Milky Tracker and XM format. That is all 

@Saga I like your site, and like those old games listed there, magic times!

[zzo38]

It only really makes sense for streamed formats (such as MP3), but for modules, which were never meant to be streamed, and which technically cannot be streamed because you always need to have the whole file, it really doesn't make much sense to have this as a "feature" of the format.

While it is true, it does mean that if used as a piped input into a program, that you would need to load the entire file into RAM first before parsing it (and growing the memory dynamically if you do not know the file size ahead of time), or else to extremely complicated things to work-around it. When doing piped output it is a bit less difficult but is still difficult to do. I like the UNIX way of programs operating as filters, using stdin/stdout to transfer data instead of filenames.

True, but then again, who prints out a 150-page thick manual these days? Think of the trees!
The manual is not even written in a way that is easily readable on paper (e.g. no cross references to other pages to allow easy navigation).

Although then why are you using PDF? However like you said this has been corrected by now, but still. (I myself prefer DVI for printout anyways, but still PDF is not that good for non-printout things too; these treeview features and stuff are best for files that can be both printed and viewed on screen.)

[Saga Musix]

The PDF solution was bad in many ways; e.g. it didn't even have the ability to colour links, and some internal links were turned into external links. However, at the time when the manual was ready for being included into OpenMPT, PDF was the only format to which I could export the wiki contents to was PDF, since e.g. the DocBook renderer for the export plugin was not available. However, with the help of coda, I created a page scraper to be able to create a collection of exact HTML copies of the articles. Now the manual looks the way it's supposed to look - on screen, anyway. However, it would also be possible now to create e.g. a single big HTML page to print out, if someone really needs that.

[xerion567]

Yep, still using SkaleTracker over 10 years after it was pretty much discontinued; only now I've got it rigged up to work with Linux via WineASIO. It really was that good! So basically this means I must use the SKM format or export to a really stripped down XM.  I do quite like the concepts behind the JACK audio connection kit, essentially making every sound application a modular thing.

I've tried to see if Renoise could step up to take SkaleTracker's place, but I always find that some critical feature is either outright missing or too difficult to find in the maze that is the user interface...

[penultimatedoomguy]

I like Milkytracker and Deflemask, and I prefer XM.  I'm looking forward to Schism Tracker and IT

[Kilgariff]

My preferred format is .XM

I like OpenMPT, I originally used Modplug Tracker a decade ago,
I needed some .mod files for a game I was developing for Gameboy Advance.
I like the GUI and more recently VSTi support - though I prefer Renoise for that.

I was not particularly interested in music production at the time,
I was amazed what people could do with just 4 channels of sound and kilobytes of samples.

A few weeks back I found lots of files (.mod/.it/.s3m /etc) I had collected and backed up in '04.
So I gave them a listen and got a little nostalgia trip and decided to try and make something myself.

I'll have a proper look through this thread and experiment with some others for sure.  : )