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Author Topic: Is tracking going to get ugly too?  (Read 5973 times)

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radstorm57

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Is tracking going to get ugly too?
« on: November 16, 2008, 06:40:39 »

Hi all, you know I come here and mostly read what others have to say, but this sort of disappoints me what some are saying thing like "Someone ripped my samples" To me that has always been a Grey area in tracking anyhow. Where did you get the sample first? Did you get it from a Yamaha keyboard perhaps. If that be the case, well then would not Yamaha actually own it, and not you? I know they don't just fall from the sky to certain people. They have to come from another source, then converted, or whatever to use them in trackers. But out of respect, and if you stipulate so, others should not use them. I have seen in some files that they do say it is ok to use them.   

I see so many pointing saying this person stole this and that. "I will sue you", and that kind of junk. Correct if I am wrong, but was not the reason many of us went to this way of making music to get away from all that RIAA / LA scene sue happy crap?  Because we were a tad "renegade"?

If people do not want others to do anything with their song then put your conditions in the tag. I know modplug has that option. Put your terms there, instead of using up the space sending shoutouts to all your homeys. Legality begins with the artist, their recording label, or their appointed agents. Not the end user or recipient.  ;)

I do think if you use another person's music file, no matter what you convert it to, give them credit still. I always do at my site. I know even to this day many still don't know what this kind of composing is. So I show them samples converted to swf so they can hear it, and get an idea of what it can do.. Giving credits is the unwritten law, called courtesy. I also agree with  those who say they are flattered others spread their music. That is how one builds a fan base, yes?  Bottom line is, read the tag. Then if it is ok, then go for it. It is the composer's responsibility and theirs only to set the conditions. It is then your responsibility to honor those conditions. :)

However, free stops being truly free when conditions get attached. Then it is a borrowed and never truly for the masses, it's just more DRM crap.

As for me I have been lucky at times even finding the tracking artist to ask permissions, and many it seems have disappeared off the face of the earth. Heavens knows how many unanswered or undeliverable emails I have sent out over the years. Or going to long time dead sites  ??? One thing is though, the composers you do actually find are usually pretty nice and easy going about you using their compositions. They appreciate your asking. Let's keep it that way..please :)
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barryvan

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Re: Is tracking going to get ugly too?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2008, 12:04:49 »

Hmm. I guess that I kinda sidestep the whole issue by using virtual instruments, not samples. (Especially Kontakt, which is a sampler...) I distribute my stuff as MP3s/OGGs/etc. but I also often upload the source file. No-one will be able to play the track from the source (because they haven't got the same setup as me), but they can at least look at the pattern data and see what I've done to achieve something.
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Re: Is tracking going to get ugly too?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2008, 12:22:12 »

Quote
well then would not Yamaha actually own it, and not you?
those samples are actually public domain.
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radstorm57

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Re: Is tracking going to get ugly too?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2008, 14:49:58 »

Exactly what I am thinking too Jojo. Samples are public domain. Meaning we all can use them :) Probably a good approach, barryvan. That way they usually can't get into it. The one thing I agree with anyone about is it is a composer's creativity others should not take. The technology of producing it is pretty much open source ;)

Anyhow, I just want to see tracking stay a good alternative to the stuff plaguing the music world these days.
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m0d

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Re: Is tracking going to get ugly too?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2008, 12:03:28 »

If you release a module that uses samples that have come off a commercial sample CD, you have no rights to redistribute them whatsoever. In fact, you could face litigation over doing so by the company who created and marketed the sample CD collection.

As far as people moaning about ripping samples from other modules, that can basically be put down to ego - and in the spirit of the scene that people should acknowledge those that provided the raw materials for their release.

Just to step back to the first part again, If those modules contained commercial samples, though, then whoever released them are actually in breach of the sample CD terms as the only method of redistribution allowed is  via rendered complete works, not source material (unless explicitly stated so in the EULA). The litigation therefore would be between the artist and the copyright holder of the samples.

Also, stating that sounds from workstations (romplers, for example) are public domain is free is incorrect. They are licensed to you as a musician when you purchase the hardware - this also goes for VSTis. If you sample instruments off your keyboard which are PRESETs then you are breaching the terms of the manufacturer (unless explicitly stated otherwise). Again, use of the presets is meant to be in rendered complete works - not source materials.

Just thought I should clear that up a little.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2008, 13:03:09 by m0d »
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Re: Is tracking going to get ugly too?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2008, 12:26:46 »

oh great, if you're 100% serious about that, you can close down TMA right now. 99% of all modules violate at least one copyright then ;D
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m0d

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Re: Is tracking going to get ugly too?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2008, 12:46:35 »

Even in jest, don't react like that. It's inappropriate as a crew member to voice heresy. ;)

You're probably wrong because presets are easy to recreate anyway. Unless you can find somewhere that states that the sounds in the instruments are public domain, you just cannot assume so... common sense, isnt it?

Fact is, its hard to prove and also its not OUR fault, it's the ARTISTS. ;)

But to get back on topic: to summarise: (imo)

If you redistribute commercial samples - you're bad.

If you redistribute samples you found in other modules of which the source is unknown - plausible deniability .

If you sample in patches off your rompler keyboard, then you had better check for yourself if you're allowed to redistribute them, then again if your end product is music and not a commercial sample CD then you are in the clear... doh. There are commerical sample CDs of various rompler workstations presets, like the Korg Trinity, JP8080 and I believe they are under special license from the manufacturers. They'd have to be -  surely? :)

If you take samples created by another tracker musician and don't credit him (note i said created) then you're a dipshit for not respecting your scene buddies ;) [Edit: also if there are repercussions you remember who to pass the blame onto haha :D]
« Last Edit: November 22, 2008, 13:03:36 by m0d »
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Re: Is tracking going to get ugly too?
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2008, 13:24:18 »

Quote
You're probably wrong because presets are easy to recreate anyway. Unless you can find somewhere that states that the sounds in the instruments are public domain, you just cannot assume so... common sense, isnt it?
well... that's what i heard before. synth samples are public domain. but there are different views, i guess. and i guess that neither korg nor yamaha nor some other manufacturer will sue you just because used their synth. :)
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m0d

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Re: Is tracking going to get ugly too?
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2008, 14:05:36 »

Quote
You're probably wrong because presets are easy to recreate anyway. Unless you can find somewhere that states that the sounds in the instruments are public domain, you just cannot assume so... common sense, isnt it?
well... that's what i heard before. synth samples are public domain. but there are different views, i guess. and i guess that neither korg nor yamaha nor some other manufacturer will sue you just because used their synth. :)

Citation required, hehe :)
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Re: Is tracking going to get ugly too?
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2008, 14:41:44 »

yeah, i know. dunno where i got it from, maybe even from this board. :P
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