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Author Topic: [Discussion] New module format - openModplug  (Read 37051 times)

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pailes

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[Discussion] New module format - openModplug
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2007, 11:47:21 »

Hopefully they come up with this new file format. So no more crippled/non-standard/incompatible IT/XM/MOD style modules made with ModPlug please.
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[Discussion] New module format - openModplug
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2007, 12:28:45 »

by the way, i've never understood why modplug is always the "bad guy" in the scene. i mean, it does the same to IT format Impulse Tracker did to S3M, what many other trackers did to the original MOD format (including Fast Tracker)...
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pailes

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[Discussion] New module format - openModplug
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2007, 16:39:13 »

Quote from: "Jojo"
by the way, i've never understood why modplug is always the "bad guy" in the scene. i mean, it does the same to IT format Impulse Tracker did to S3M, what many other trackers did to the original MOD format (including Fast Tracker)...

That is only partly true. Both Fasttracker and Impulse Tracker invent new file formats to store their proprietary extensions. They do not alter the original file formats to be able to store information that hasn't been intented, like ModPlug does.

You can read about it here:
http://dumb.sourceforge.net/index.php?page=docs&doc=modplug

And that's only a little example how ModPlug tries to "enhance" the IT format. It also allows for incompatible XM modules having stereo samples, more than 32 channels etc. which FT2 can no longer read.
Besides that, ModPlug tracker makes no attempt at identifying itself as *the* tracker of creation, it writes "FastTracker 2" into the XM header, making it very difficult to detect whether the file has been saved with ModPlug.
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Saga Musix

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[Discussion] New module format - openModplug
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2007, 20:49:02 »

Don't forgot that there is a so-called "compatiblity export" in OpenModplug - it generates IT files that are fully compatible to Impulse Tracker (currently not, that is. i just spotted an error in the function that inserted a wrong IT version, so impulse tracker was not able to open the file)...
geee, i hate it to argue about this stuff with "oldsk00lers"...
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[Discussion] New module format - openModplug
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2007, 21:48:24 »

Quote from: "Jojo"
Don't forgot that there is a so-called "compatiblity export" in OpenModplug - it generates IT files that are fully compatible to Impulse Tracker (currently not, that is. i just spotted an error in the function that inserted a wrong IT version, so impulse tracker was not able to open the file)...
geee, i hate it to argue about this stuff with "oldsk00lers"...

Actually there is no arguing at all. Olivier definitely did this wrong. It would have been so easy to create a new file format right from the start. Composers happily created incompatible modules because they weren't aware of this fact and now we have plenty of replaying issues.
And yeah "Compatiblity export" sounds nice, but only people aware of the problems will use it.
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Saga Musix

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[Discussion] New module format - openModplug
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2007, 23:54:35 »

but you also have to keep in mind that the probably most used mod player is XMplay which plays most modplug modules fine - it only lacks vst support, but i also offer mp3 downloads of my tracks that use VSTs... i mean, who uses impulse tracker to listen to IT files nowadays?
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[Discussion] New module format - openModplug
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2007, 11:09:20 »

Modules were never meant to support VSTs and have never been. If you use VST:s, then don't distribute the module. Distribute an MP3.

For goodness sake, how obvious is not it? VST:s are programs, programs only works on their intended platform. Modules however are distributed and supposed to work dependless on their platform and player.

And Saga, there are a whole lot of people who use IT to listen to .IT modules. I don't know why you defend the inconvenience, well, "mess" that ModPlug created. The only thing it does is cause us all problem, both for the composer and the listener. It's like defending the W3C incompatibility of Internet Explorer 6 just because a lot of people use it.

And since I use ModPlug Tracker regularly, I know bloody well all it's problems and strengths enough to be pissed off by all this, especially as it always means I have to tweak my modules afterhand to make them sound acceptable in other players and trackers. Bah!
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[Discussion] New module format - openModplug
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2007, 11:10:21 »

Quote from: "Jojo"
but you also have to keep in mind that the probably most used mod player is XMplay which plays most modplug modules fine - it only lacks vst support, but i also offer mp3 downloads of my tracks that use VSTs... i mean, who uses impulse tracker to listen to IT files nowadays?

That is just an assumption and I wouldn't count on it. There are many IT players around for many platforms. XMPlay only works on Windows and many people are listening to modules from Linux or OS X. And many people on Windows do not even know that XMPlay exists.

Personally I don't listen to tracker songs rendered to mp3. It destroys the feeling of a module when I can't watch patterns scroll and see effects triggering. But maybe that's just me.
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[Discussion] New module format - openModplug
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2007, 14:52:36 »

Quote
Modules however are distributed and supposed to work dependless on their platform and player.

I don't think that this is the original concept of modules. Modules (MODs) were supposed to play back on Amigas in the 80s, other platforms only adopted them - and the MAC is for example a very important platform for creating music, so many VSTs have MAC support, f.e. the mda series which i use.

Quote
XMPlay only works on Windows and many people are listening to modules from Linux or OS X

XMPlay is based on BASS.DLL which runs fine on the MAC and I think there's also a linux port.

Quote
t destroys the feeling of a module when I can't watch patterns scroll and see effects triggering. But maybe that's just me.

That's right, but people can still download my tracks as normal modules. if they want the maxmium sound volume, they can download all the free VSTs i use.

okay, i'll shut up for now :shifty:
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[Discussion] New module format - openModplug
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2007, 19:36:06 »

Quote from: "Jojo"
XMPlay is based on BASS.DLL which runs fine on the MAC and I think there's also a linux port.

BASS.DLL surely does not work on Linux or OS X, DLL stands for Dynamic Link Library and is a Windows only library format that usually contains x86 code. The BASS library might be available for those platforms, but there are not many players supporting it.

But isn't it great that with modules we actually have the freedom to choose whatever player we prefer?

Quote
That's right, but people can still download my tracks as normal modules. if they want the maxmium sound volume, they can download all the free VSTs i use.

If they use a Windows PC.

Btw. the term MAC usually stands for "Media Access Control". If you want to refer to Macintosh computers you should say "Mac" because it's Macintosh not MACintosh ;)
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